the decent?

As it's believed in many circles, Jesus Christ after going to the cross then decended to hell. i have done a few studies on this typic and have not come to any kind of a final conclution. i did hear an interesting point of view on this the other day though, it went kinda like this.

That Christ never decended to hell, though he did suffer it. But that was on the cross and that after that the work was totally finished. That may sound just fine to some, it will no doubt get up the nose of others. Either way we still have to reckon with scripture.  Here is just one example for now.

1Pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Here in first Peter we see one of the text used to form the doctrine of Jesus' decent to hell. 

In verse 18 Peter explains the atonement, the very heart of the Gospel. Christ (the just) suffered once, (for who) for the unjust, and what happened? He was put to death in the flesh BUT quickened by the Spirit. v19 by which (or by the same Spirit that quickened him) He went and Preached unto the spirits in prison. 

ok thats great you say but what does that mean? Well, I am not really 100% sure to be honest. It's possible that this is talking about Christ's preaching in his earthly ministry but doubtful, More likely is, that Spirit (the 3rd member of the trinity) was the same one in which he preached through Noah to those disobedient sinners in that day. This would explain verse 20 in that these people where not free but in bondage to sin having already been judged by God, the sentence of the dammed is delayed only by the long suffering of God as Noah preached. No matter what is being said here i think we can understand it in different ways, still surely he means only one thing by it and further study may yet uncover this mystery text.

lets not forget this creed of the faith that affirms of the decent to hell.

The Apostles creed,

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead.

He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

psalm 51, kind of

in my own words...

i was challenged to read this psalm and put it in my own words. i gave it a shot. it might not be all right on with the meaning of what was being said, nevertheless, it was a blessing to me so i decided to share. 

1. Lord, give grace to me that i do not diserve, in accord with the way you feel toward me, and erase my sin because you forgive those who are unforgivable.
2. clean me completely from the depraved nature that clings to me, wash away my willing transgressions.
3. i admit to breaking your holy laws and my offenses are always on my mind.
4. my offenses are toward thee and only thee, i have done wickedness in your eyes; therefore thou may judge and pass judgements out of your justice.
5. look now, how i have been raised up a felon, yea from my mothers womb a willful law breaker.
6. look now, for you want truth through out the entire body, and wisdom known in the unknown
7. totally wash me with that witch shall make me clean, then i shall be as fresh and new.
8. Lord, give me happiness so that the ways you have broken me will turn to my joy.
9. do not let your face behold my lawlessness, oh Lord erase it all from my past.
10. my heart is stained and you must make it anew, my spirit is wrong, and you must make it right with you.
11. do not push me away, but fill me with your spirit.
12. return the rejoicing of salvation, let me be held high by you, 
13. that i may teach law breakers your laws, and the wicked shall become saints.
14. i am guilty of thy blood, for my deliverance was it spilled, and through it i am saved, thus i sing of thy righteousness .
15. give me the words that i may praise.
16. what is it you require? for what i can carry forth you need not.
17. but a repentant soul, broken for thee, thou takest joy therein.
18. make my house strong oh Lord, 
19. that it may serve you always sacrificing for your glory until the end of time.

That Day...

2Pe 3:1  This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 

2Pe 3:2  That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Savior: 

2Pe 3:3  Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 

2Pe 3:4  And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 

2Pe 3:5  For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 

2Pe 3:6  Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished. 

2Pe 3:7  But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 

2Pe 3:8  But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 

2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 

2Pe 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 

2Pe 3:11  Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 

2Pe 3:12  Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 

2Pe 3:13  Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 

2Pe 3:14  Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 

Here we have the second epistle from the apostle peter, (1st & 2nd Peter being my very favorite books of the bible) He starts out here saying that what he is about to say is to stir up your mind by way of remembrance. somethings where spoken he says about a time that will come, remember what was said about this time. it will be a time like no other, all of man kind will go after their own lusts, saying all things continue as they where from the beginning (sound familiar?). these things are signs of this day that is coming, verse 10 - the day of the Lord. it will come all of a sudden out of nowhere, like a thief in the night even. and the earth as we know it will come to an end. the elements will melt with fervent heat, this is hard to imagine. have you ever been close to a very hot flame? even at a distance you have to turn your face away or risk damage to your eyes and face. think of that very hot flame where ever it was when you saw it, now imagine it covering the entire earth and heavens. for us who are in Christ this may not seem very scary or maybe you believe in the rapture (i do) and so we know we will not be here for it, and the lost will be off to the judgement by this time. but i think if we can imagine all the things we love, like that river you fish in and the long road you drive down to think about things, and the home you where raised in all burning with a fervent heat, now we can start to get some type of image of what the lost will be going through in hell. there must be some sobering fact here because of what Peter has to say in verse 11. seeing that we know this is coming what kind of people should we be? what kind of life should we be living? why would he use the destruction of this heaven and earth as a kind of slap in the face to say WAKE UP people. this thing is coming and so you should be living like so. i think that the coming of the Lord, the melting of the elements, and the heavens being dissolved with fire all mark the end of the spread of the gospel. and this is why he uses this day as a wake up call to live each and everyday a certain way. i used to read this passage with excitement that a new day was coming in which all things would be new. i think thats ok, but we should also remember (because he said to remember) that this day is coming and that it will mark the end for all those with out christ, or should i say it will mark the start of an eternity of hellish flames.and lets not forget verse 14 - be diligent that you may be found IN HIM, without spot, and blameless. Be diligent brothers, be found in Him! and remember!

a very good reason why NOT to blog everyday

bloggers are dropping dead - blogged them selves to death! think i am lying? click here and see

the man who was thursday

this months free audio book from Christian audio is the man who was thursday by C.K.Chesterton. what a magnificently confusing story! it was easy enough to follow but what it all means is not so easy. there are strong Christian illustrations imbedded into what has been called a metaphysical thriller, it keeps you at the edge of your seat as the twists and turns of this journey unfold one chapter after the next. i downloaded the book late last night and just finished it now. i must say it has been one of my very favorite books thus far, even if by the time it's all said and done your not quite sure what just happened, you only know you really liked it.

1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

In the ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ we saw him preforming each and everyone of these Gifts, except 2.

• the word of wisdom
  
• the word of knowledge 
  
• faith
  
• healing
  
• the working of miracles
  
• prophecy
  
• discerning of spirits
  
• divers kinds of tongues
• the interpretation of tongues
  

The only two gifts in this list Jesus never used, divers kinds of tongues and the interpretation of tongues, why? 

something to think about i think...

wha wha what!!!

so i was cruzin around looking for an R.C. Sproul video on u tube and stumbled onto something i can not help but share. brian mclaren, ever heard of him? i had, but never heard him speak. now i know why - he is way out there in left field, i have never heard this view of Christ and the atonement. i have my opinions about these kind of beliefs but we will not go there for the sake of keeping things on somewhat of a positive note. i will leave it up to you to decide what to make of him and his doctrines. i will say this though, he is wrong. very very wrong and it's really hard to listen to but give it a shot it's short, then at least we will understand a little more about what it is we are up against here in the so called American seeker sensitive evangelical church.

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

let me know finish my point -
this guy can not possibly be reading the same bible i am. verse after verse tells us why Jesus Christ was sent, why we died, and why he rose. we know what his blood was shed for, there is no need to guess at it or to have to try and come up with a theory on it. we know!!

LOOK at this -
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

what is there about those verses is he not getting? the blood of christ cleansed our sin, it was not some example we are to follow, and if so when sir will you be getting on the cross to shed your blood? hmmm, maybe i should not ask that? people are already doing it in South America - are we next? why was Christ's finished work on the cross not good enough? i just don't understand how you miss this. it's the corner stone of the Christian faith. Jesus Christ and him Crucified!!!